Hi

I would also like the commission to add Telkom to the list with Vodacom, MTN and Cell C as Telkom also charges high interconnect fees.
I find the price of telecommunications very expensive in South Africa. Internet connection prices are priced very high and are only for the rich people and cannot be afforded by the normal man in street.

Thanks
Faizal

To create the picture:

I have over a period of 2 years built a credit of R6,500 of airtime credit on a R500 per month contract, not fully utilizing the monthly airtime allotment. I wanted to use the credit to off set against another cell phone. The cell phone company flatly refused.

Why will the cell phone companies not credit my accumulated air time against a new cell phone?
I have done a bit of investigation & the following facts have become apparent:

1. A new cell phone actually has a real monetary value.

2. It is more cost effective for a cellphone service provider to off-set call costs against a credit, than to give you that credit on a phone.

3. Why? Because they do not tell the whole truth about their business model and how their profits are actually generated.

4. Nothing they do is free. Not hand sets, special add on deals, “free” giveaways if you take a contract, etc. Sure there is a small cost attached to the handset, which you supposedly pay off over the duration of the contract, but they DO NOT make their money out of handsets. That is a transport vehicle for their main business.

5. Everything ‘free” is offset against their reason for existence – to make the maximum amount they can out of the calls that run through the network.

6. A reliable source puts the TOTAL cost of a single call at about 18 to 20c per minute (if that). This includes the full infrastructure costs, salaries, overheads, licenses for spectrum, and all costs involved in linking the call from one to another phone.

7. This said, it now makes sense why they will not give one a credit on a cell phone from the accumulated “airtime credit”, because they will rather off set a cost of R2.75 for a minute call, and make an obscene profit while diminishing the credit at a faster rate than the actual cost really is.

8. So with my R6,500 airtime credit, I will get a total of 2,364 calls.

9. The rub comes into the fact that these calls actually only cost the company a staggering R472.73, based on a call cost of R0.20. Taking the R472.73 away from the Credit of R6,500 leaves an obscene profit of R6027.27!!

10. No wonder they do not wish to give me a credit on a new phone. It will not be as profitable as making me reduce the costs by using it up for call time.

11. Obviously to reduce the tax level that they will be attracting, they make enormous donations to charitable causes and sponsor sport, arts and social awareness programmes.

12. Can you please clarify how the service providers stand on the above and if this is the real reason why they will not give me a credit against my phone?

Thank you

Angus Clarke
0828530968

Hi Clarke,can't understand your statement need clarity on your point as i've never hard of this before

Ole

Well done Patricia, it's about time someone took on these giants. SA needs someone as fearless as you to speak up for the poor man in the street. Supporting you all the way.

Hi Patricia
Thank you for taking up this issue with ICASA.
I am self employed and the cost of cell phone costs is really hurting my business.
The economic times are tough enough but on top of it we have these ridiculous costs.
We are told by Government we need to create a nation of entrepeneurs.
Well that is great but we all need to make calls in business and the costs prevent a small business person from making calls to market as they are so high.
I trust you will be successful.
Regards
Chris

Quite frankly the whole of South African, and foreign investors have been aware of this practice of South African Communication companies extorting money from its clients while Africa and the rest of the world have relatively reasonable prices. This is one of the major components that detracts investments in this country Secondly it offers no opportunity for any small business start-ups.
As I see it, Banks, Communications, Food Industry to name a few of parties involved in the consistent use of collusion to beat down the public. 60% of the US market is small enter prize, so as long as the government permits this to continue we will see no increase in employment no real growth in the near future. More police = Band-Aid solution Poverty = crime

Patricia well done for taking on these real issues that affects all of us, I and allot of people and family close to me find the cost absolutly shockingly high for a comodity that has become in allot of our cases not a luxury but essential.
If you see the amount of advertising these companies place it shows how much profit they must be making.
It is these issues of imbalances between consumers and the profit margins that are the core of allot of the problems in the country.
Again Thanks
A Greiff

we are being totally ripped off. everything in this country is expensive, from a loaf of bread to the cost of telecommunications. much work need to be done on these companies and the costs need to be reduced drastically! the profits they are making speak for themselves!

Only the rich can afford to use the internet @ R2.00 per MB Vodacom, cell C and MTN are making it very difficult for the avrage South African household.
(How can Virgin charge 60cents per meg when they are using Vodacom or MTN network).
Its time the big fish in the market wake up. The average South African cannot afford to purchase large data bundles which only then make it afordable to use the internet.
Well done Virgin!!!
A rasberry to the rest of you!

Greetings to you.

The CELL PHONE issue

...Apart from the exorbitant rates, the contract must be reviewed. One is locked into a contract for 24 months and a debit order is signed. The cell phone company then has the right to debit one's account on the basis of this contract - neve mind what the amount. I have made innumerable requests to I Talk to disallow use of my cell phones once I have exhausted the so called free minutes but I find that the debit orders are still in excess of the contractual amount. They seem to have control over one's account and this leaves the consumer helpless. They fail to honour their side of the contract - which is as they have agreed to do - close of use of the line once the "free minutes" are exhausted and should the consumer suggest that the contract be annulled then heavy and onerous penalties are imposed. The CONTRACT must be more consumer friendly.

Cell Phone companies which do not honour contracts must be blacklisted and heavy fines imposed - so that they would be guarded against "stealing" from customers accounts! Like the Minerals and Energy dept has decided about the municipalities cutting off the electricity supply for non payment of other services.

Licences must be revoked - of these companies- at the slightest attempt to "extort" monies from the accounts of the consumer.

Then again, they do not send out statements timeously and the only time I come to know that the amount I owe is when I look at my bank statement. This month a whopping R5100-00 has been deducted from my current account - a regular feature for months and after a mammoth battle I received a refund last month but the problem seems to recur. One cannot budget as the amount comes as a surprise without any warning in the form of a statement advising the amount to be withdrawn.

I do hope that there are mandatory stipulations which are effected to protect consumers from such unscrupulous actions by cell phone companies.

I tend to surmise that losses incurred due to poor management are made good by "extorting" monies from the unprotected and defenceless consumer.

I wish you well in your endeavours and I know that your efforts will bring relief to the overburdened consumer

Wishing you success

Yours respectfully

Sathish Ramdas

CELL: 0833013803

I would like to add my name to the Independent Democrat's objection based on the totally unacceptable interconnection fees that Vodacom and MTN are charging, which in turn make RSA's calls amongst the highest in the world.

Kind regards
Doug Austin

SA is a developing country, the internet is a resource that if properly utilised, can help serve as a great tool to educate and provide information to the people. The high costs of internet access is preventing this from happening. As long as internet costs remain alarmingly high, the majority of South Africans will be robbed of the opportunity to experience surfing the net and benefiting from the limitless information in cyberspace.

Thanks so much for taking up this matter. I have supported Cell C for 8 years. I realise that by being a Cell C subscriber, I'm paying over and above 'normal' calls due to the interconnectivity rates between the 3 operators but wanted to support the new operator. It's abhorrent that the general public is being so defiled by Vodacom and MTN when buying pre-paid calls is their only form of communication.

Thank goodness for sms's, and whilst peak, off peak and free minutes are available for those on contract, this doesn't hold for pre-paid. One understands the need to make a profit and pay staff, etc, etc, but the obscene profit being generated with but a portion going to corporate social investment, this is the anomaly that needs to be addressed.

I wish you strength as you bring this complaint to ICASA's attention.

Warm wishes
Lesley Dalton

I truly apploud you Mrs De lille for the reasearch that you did for us as ordinary citizen of this counrty,interconnect of all the network is too high and we all wait for 20h00 to pass by for us to make a call its really expensive as for internet iyoh dont wanna touch this subject as its so high..


O.Mathulo

Thanks to Patricia we have some sanity in this country.
We have been promised that we would have a regulated system that would be monitored and that we would get a fair deal where a competitive situation exists. However, it would appear that the Government is doing everything it can to allow anti-competitive conduct to be the order of the day.
L.D. VAN LEEVE

You have our support all the way! Mobile phone calls costs are way out of line..

Why would the SA Government wish to deprive the younger generation access to the internet in a country that is crying out for education; for years Telcom have charged exorbitant fees for the SAT3 cable thereby making internet access 10 times the cost it should be.

Are things about to change? - I doubt it until the shareholders are held to account. And so it is with the cellphone operators - who have become so removed from their customers they just do what they want to do - charge like a wounded bull.

Bob Crisp

VIVA! PAT,VIVA
ITS HIGH TIME SOMEONE TOOK A STAND AND FIGHT FOR US,SOUTH AFRICANS AND THANKS MRS DE LILLE FOR BEING BRAVE ENOUGH TO CHALLENGE THESE.I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT YOU HAVE FULL SUPPORT OF ALL SOUTH AFRICANS BEHIND YOU EVEN THOSE WHO ARE WORKING FOR THIS COMPANIES THAT ARE RIPPING US OFF,SOLDIER ON.GOD BLESS YOU.
FROM:RAYMOND PHAGO IN LIMPOPO

Well done MP de Lille for taking action on the absorbitant costs of cell phone calls. I would like to add my support to your campaign and congratulate you on assisting to push this through to the Competition Commission. My children who are residing in the UK and were out here on holiday, could not believe the charges that are made for mobile and broadband usage. There must be action taken and questions answered to this, it is currently unacceptable.

Patrick.

I want to know what has happened to MTN?

I have been using MTN for a long time (you can check my account history for the exactly how long) and I must say you are really doing a great job at screwing your customers, well I feel like you are.

First of all ,that circus of a birthday competition you had were you sent me a sms to enter and then tell me I have one some stupid prize or points but I should send another sms @R7.50 a pop to get more points to win some more crappy prizes. Isn’t it supposed to be that we actually gain something from this? Instead you ripped off your customers, I must say what a way to say thank you to all of us for supporting you all these years.

The next thing is , it was time for an upgrade and one of the companies or providers came by my office to show me what was available, once again you should be able to access this information. I told the woman that I wanted to stay with the old package but she said that you no longer offered this package on upgrades. She then suggested that considering my average accounts that I should take the MTN 500 package. She told me that these new packages are much better for the customers (yea right) and I would benefit from it. One of the advantages with the new packages was that it was per second billing from the first second of the call and so I wouldn't be paying for unused seconds. Well all I can say is BULLSH*T".
If you bother to check my account you will see that I have been charged R2.06 for a 1 or 2 sec call. It looks quiet obvious that you are ripping me off! It looks as though you are charging per minute instead of what I was told when the contract was explained to me. My average cell account use to be around R600 and I was told that it would now go up to R650 because I have to pay R150 extra for the phone I wanted.

I was taken through the various options and I eventually decided on the HTC Dream. I was told that it had a 5 mega pixel camera and that appealed to me because I often use my camera for work. Well guess what! It doesn't have 5 mega pixel camera, instead it has a pathetic 3.2 mega pixel which is useless to me. I called the service provider and told them about this and guess what was the response, yes you guessed it, tough luck, and there isn't anything they can do about it. My previous phone was a Sony Ericsson 990i and so I need something the same or better. I was only told that the new phone doesn’t have a flash and doesn't take video. I suppose that your response to this problem is that I should take it up with the service provider, well as far as I am concerned YOU are taking my money every month and the service provider represents MTN so it is MTN's problem.

Let’s get back to the accounts that I have recieved.When I got my first account after the last upgrade I saw that you had gone to town on my account. I don't think I have EVER had an account as high as last month. When I called in to query my account I was told that that was the way it was. I must tell you which numbers I want to query. Well the whole account was rediculous,the woman that was suppose to be helping me was so pathetic and arrogant that I asked her to put me through to her supervisor but I got the typical response that there aren't any supervisors available. As a result I gave up as it appeared I wasn't going to get anywhere by phoning your customer care line.
I then phoned my provider and was informed that MTN was having a problem with the customer’s accounts by overcharging but that they (MTN) WAS BUSY SORTING OUT THE PROBLEM. If that was the case it seems as though you have not looked at my account.

As you are aware MTN has "ticked off" a lot of people lately, I am referring in part to the radio discussion a couple of weeks back as well as listening to what people have to say about you.

Getting back to my new phone, one of the functions I had on my old phone was a note book for jotting down information as the name suggests. My new phone doesn’t have this function. Once again I phoned my provider and the response was that I can down load it from "HANDANGO" on the internet. Well there isn't anything available. I then phoned again and was told that she would look into it and get back to me, well what a surprise, I never heard anything from my provider. I then phoned them again and was told that they are waiting for HTC because there have been a lot of various queries and that HTC would have to something.

When I shown my different phone options I did say that my notebook option was important to me and I was told that it should have something like that but if not she would help me get it. Another function which I was told was that the phone would have the usual games on it but that I wouldn't be able download any games. Well the phone doesn't have any games on it, not even solitaire which was one of the games I was told it would probably have. I have been able to down load one game so far from the site she suggested.
The only time somebody has contacted me was when somebody phoned to enquire about the service I had received and my response was that it was pathetic. I was then told by the operator that she would forward my response to the relevant person. I never heard from them again.

I opened this month’s account and saw that once again my account was high. I then phoned your 808 number to find out what was going on. Prior to phoning I went on to check what my contract consisted of and from the way I understand it was that I get R500 air time and or data and 50 sms are included in the package. This is what it says on your website and that is how it was explained to me when I was looking at the different contract options.
Tonight when I phoned , Ntomi (very polite person I must add) (ref no.50349427) tried to explain to me that I get 50 sms but if I go over my R500 I would be charged for the sms's. So I ask you what is the point of saying that you get 50 sms's included in the package. For that sake you may as well say you get 666 sms's in the package as long as you don't make a single phone call or download a single byte of data. Another problem was I was told that I get 100 Meg free data every month with the phone which I selected.
According to the internet (Google) 1 Meg = 1024 bytes x 1024 bytes = 1048576 bytes. According to my last account I used 5335040 bytes and this is just over 5 Meg according to my calculation. The way I understand it that I still have at least another 94 meg left before I have to pay, but not according to you, you decided to charge me for using my free data, I don't understand how that works but it doesn't seem to be the case that my free data is in fact free.

All of the above applies to all my accounts since my last upgrade.

In summary:

I didn't get what was sold to me on taking the contract in that the following has not been done.
1. My phone is missing specs which I was told it would have.
2. I am not being charged the way it was explained to me.
3. I am being charged for things which I was told was for free.

When I phoned tonight I was told that it would take 20 days for you to respond because that is what the help line was told was your turn around time. This is also not acceptable. I expect a response much sooner.


The response I got was that they were sorry the contract wasn't explained properly to me.I am now stuck with a expensive contract for the next 22 months and I feel it is their problem,but it seems they have that tough luck attitude,we got you now so pay up.

While supporting all of the ID's points, my pet beef is the mandatory and lengthy voicemail instructions.

Suppose you call somebody's cell and have to leave a message. First you hear his own voice: "Hi, it's Bruce Harkness. Leave a message" and often thereafter you hear a canned carrier message which goes on for a while advising of this and that.

* Eg "[Name / phone number] is not available right now. Please leave a detailed message after the tone. When you have finished recording, you may hang up, or press x for more options."

* Eg "At the tone, please record your message. When you have finished recording, you may hang up, or press 1 for xxxx, press 2 for xxxxxx options, etc"

The voicemailbox owner cannot turn off these additional greeting messages. I'm sure the caller can bypass them, but only if one knows the secret keypress-- which will be different for each carrier. So you'd have to know which cellphone carrier the person you are calling is using, and that of every person you'll ever call; in other words, there is no solution.

These messages are outrageous for two reasons. First, they waste our time. It's 2009, most of us know what to do at the beep.

Do we really need to be told to hang up when we're finished?

The caller pays for these messages. These little 15 - 45 second waits add up. If Vodacom's 15 million customers leave or messages twice a day, Vodacom would rake in a fortune over a year. That's our money. And our time: perhaps as much as 6 hours of our time a year, just sitting there listening to the same automated messages over and over again every year.

Bruce Harkness

1. All three South African Cellular networks (Cell-C, MTN and Vodacom) currently “CREATE” millions of lost and/or dropped client calls per month.

2. This phenomenon has been increasing exponentially every month for more than the past ten years.

3. Why?

4. Simply the 1990'S TECHNOLOGY BACKONES designs of the two major operators (MTN and Vodacom) are currently designed for +-7,5 Million users only. (based on media reports).

5. Both MTN and Vodacom will now deny this to be the case, but when we look back in the media record we find that all three cellular network operators are very disingenuous in their current statements of denial.

6. Today all three networks combined have over +35 Million users (based on media reports) with the third network (Cell-C) piggy backing on Vodacom’s dreadfully poorly designed network.

7. Interestingly the Department of Statistics said that as a result of the census in 2001 that “we only have some +-42 Million living in South Africa”.

8. So at 2001 stats the three cellular network operators only have a pool of 7 Million of South African people (babies, young children, deaf, aged and infirm) left to gain as market share?

9. But then what do you expect from a “harassed” South African public that suffers from short term “too tired to bother” memory and Xenophobia all in the same breath.

10. The reality is that the two major networks operators (MTN and Vodacom) have been too darn lazy to upgrade their overloaded backbone technology.

11. Admittedly they are now upgrading their backbones but this is another classic case too little too late “Eskom Fiasco” yet again i.e. upgrading ten years too late or in the case of Eskom twenty years too late is more realistic.

12. Is that ANC Power mongering Alec...Irwin listening? And/or does he continue to remain deaf to actual realities of life?

13. And where does ICASA fit into this game of hide of seek – actually seek and hide...

14. Because the reality is that the two main cellular network operator backbones (for MTN and Vodacom) are currently so inadequate the client just suffers and suffer and suffers and – I amongst many others suffer their... inadequacies plus their lack of morality to rectify accounts – yes money back to the punter!!

15. On an average daily trip to Lonehill from Midrand my service provider MTN manages to drop one call between three to eight times and

16. Yes MTN that’s a minimum of 750 dropped calls to just one client in less than ten kilometers per year based on a daily journey over fifty weeks.

17. Oh I forget I make a similar call on the way back so it’s actually 1,500 dropped calls per year.

18. Now if we extrapolate this fact over 35 Million users this is a staggering 525,000,000 million dropped calls per year.

19. Sure the Cell-C, MTN, and Vodacom are going to deny this statement and say this is patently untrue.

20. The reality is closer to my original estimate though.

21. Because remember I am only giving stats for one stretch of 10 Kilometer road.

22. I can you give you lists and lists.

23. Yes we know the cell phone towers are overloaded but telling me that in 2009 when you (Cellular Network Operators) knew about it back in 2001 is shameful rubbish (Stronger language, some spitting and some raw knuckles into the faces and stomachs plus some well aimed kicks with steel toecaps at the lower extremities of the cellular network operators senior board management is required as a wakeup call).

24. Reality, is MTN does not credit me for their dropped calls i.e. their “no service”.

25. I am still charged for the dropped call by MTN even though they continue to fail to deliver a service.

26. Do MTN call you back when I make a complaint? No

27. And I have made hundreds of complaints over the years.

28. Nope that's the job of Nashua Mobile they say!!

29. Sounds a lot like another Telkom doesn’t it.

30. Here is a another real reality though - fly to Texas take out your SIM and put in a local ATT SIM and guess what - only three dropped calls in three months - driving across Texas from Dallas to Amarillo and through a state that is half the size of South Africa.

James Hyslop

I PAY MTN CASH FOR MY DATA BUNDLES. I BUY AIRTIME AND CONVERT IT INTO DATA BUNDLES.
I OBJECT TO MTN TELLING ME THAT I HAVE A CERTAIN PERIOD IN WHICH TO UTILISE MY BUNDLE.
I PAY CASH. THERFORE IT BELONGS TO ME.
HOW DARE THEY DEMOLISH DATA BUNDLES THAT HAVE BEEN PAID FOR IN CASH.
THIS IS DOWNRIGHT THEFT.
I RECENTLY HAD 124.14 MEGS OF DATA DEMOLISHED. GONE INTO THIN AIR.
I PAID CASH UP FRONT FOR THIS.
I REPEAT, THIS IS PLAIN DOWNRIGHT THEFT!!!!

What about the pensioners who have to pay these exorbitent cell phone costs. For many it is their only contact with the outside world. How cruel and inhumane the "big boys" are.

Dear Patricia

ECN Telecommunications (Pty) Ltd ("ECN") is a individual ECS and ECNS licensee that is committed to targeting high interconnection prices. ECN applauds your efforts to bring about a reduction in interconnection prices.

As you are no doubt aware, ICASA seems to be of the view that it cannot deal with interconnection prices until such time as it has completed the Chapter 10 processes. ECN has also read that ICASA is of the view that the Electronic Communications Act must be re-written before it can deal with interconnection pricing.

ECN has obtained an opinion from Senior Counsel, Advocate Gilbert Marcus SC, on this issue and the advice given is that ICASA can act immediately to regulate interconnection prices and that it need not complete the Chapter 10 processes first. This means that regulations can be introduced using section 41 of the Electronic Communications Act. The Minister is also empowered to issue a policy directive to ICASA on interconnection pricing as is set out in the opinion. A copy of the opinion is included herewith.

We trust that the opinion will be of use to you in your efforts to reduce telecommunications costs.

Yours faithfully

John Holdsworth

Chief Executive Officer
ECN Telecommunications (Pty) Ltd

Patricia de Lille is to be congratulated. Yes the cell phone charges are excessive and the public is being ripped off. But it goes further than that. Back up service is abysmal. What is needed is a quality assurance rating for mobile operators in terms of the services they provide and their commitment, or otherwise, to customer relationship management.
f need be I can go into more detail.

Tony Bennington
tonybenn@bennzed.co.za

Hi Patricia,
I must commend you for your courage. Do you remember in the 90's when these companies were lobbying government for licenses. I remember, they were specifically asked how they going to keep costs down and they said in time, through competition, the costs are bound to fall. Vodacom was given a licence, later MTN. Please can ask them to explain why the costs have rocketed to this extent?
Can I advise? Unbundle all these packages
1. The operators must sell airtime only and the public must be allowed to buy directly from them.
2. Simcards and handsets must be openly sold and not linked to contracts
3. Dropped calls must be refundable
4. Airtime credit must be freely traded in the market. I must be allowed to sell airtime to anybody if I want to
5. If my contract has expired, meaning I have paid up the handset, why must I continue to pay the monthly fee?
Maxwell

Hello


Heart felt thanks!
God bless.


Javed